The Pronouns:
I love J.Krishnamurti.
I love Kurt Gödel.
I love Heisenberg.
J.Krishnamurti challenges the validity of the description of the Self/self.
Kurt Gödel challenges the legitimacy of any such possible description about the Self/self.
Heisenberg helps us in breaking the barriers of ‘Knowledge’.
The Ultimate or the core-truth of all that is which Vedanta calls ‘Brahman’ and in the same breath asserts that this Brahman is no other than Self/self.
Physics utterly fails in this attempt of understanding and conceptualizing this core truth of all that is which is Reality/ Self/self.
Physics is stuck in finding out the nature of Time, Space, Matter and Energy, and can’t cross the Heisenberg Principle.
Mathematics indirectly gives a hint. The Modern and the Abstract Mathematics.
Mathematics of Veda has a quite different approach that could possibly fit into descriptive Mathematics of the day.
But that too has limitations and tell about all that is which is Reality/ Self/self.
That too, on the periphery only.
In terms of the three (or precisely 4) pronouns.
Namely: The First person -I/We, The second person -You, The third person -It/This/These, That/Those/He/She.
While Vedanta asserts that an understanding of any of the 3 pronouns leads to the door of all that which is, none contradicts the rest.
Psychology is way behind Physics and can never transcend the mind by whatever effort is made on its part, just because Psychology begins with the dichotomy of ‘the known’ and the one ‘who knows’. This division itself is the very foundation and the obstacle for reaching at the Truth.
--
Heisenberg Principle of uncertainty and Kurt Gödel’s ‘Incompleteness-Theorem’ however lay a foundation that is in a way parallel to the approach of Vedanta.
The Heisenberg Principle lets us see how Time and Space (and Matter and energy also) could be viewed as an alternative to ‘The Direct/Immediate perception’ / अपरोक्षानुभूति / aparokṣānubhūti of This Core-Truth of all that which is.
Here we also find the concurrency of J.Krishnamurti’s approach when he proposes: The consciousness that experiences is no other than what it experiences.
He praises himself to the extent of saying that he has not come across such a proposition in any of the old scriptures. May be he knows better what he means by this. Long before Sri Ramana Maharshi has stated the same truth in His Classic work Forty Verses on Reality.
I dare disagreeing with J.Krishnamurti, though I don’t doubt He is a Realized-one. And I admire His frank declaration that He is not a ‘Guru’.
Of Course He is strictly following the way of Vedanta that insists that the knowledge of Brahman could be given only by a competent Master and only to a deserving aspirant.
This makes out the status and position of J.Krishnamurti unique and quite extra-ordinary too. Though He is a competent ‘Master’ in the Vedanta-parlance, He tries to escape from the traditional clause. There are valid reasons for doing this for him, but many a qualified aspirants have been misguided in this way.
Heisenberg Principle when seen with the Principles of Quantum Mechanics give a clue how अपरोक्षानुभूति / aparokṣānubhūti’ could take place in an instant irrespective of Time-Space obstacle.
--
For reference only,
Here is a 'Face-book Note' in French that inspired me to write this post in 'swaadhyaaya'.
With due Credits to
Eduardo Beloscar
--
Edouard Beloscar December 21, 2017
La notion métaphysique de "présence réelle" et les injonctions de sagesse visant à 'lâcher-prise', à vivre "l'instant présent", en claire conscience, en plénitude, paraissent complètement insensées aux personnes insensibles aux enseignements et aux pratiques non matérialistes, non dualistes.
Pourtant, les intuitions, découvertes et expériences 'scientifiques' non dualistes de la physique quantique sont conciliables avec les intuitions, expériences et découvertes 'non scientifiques' de la métaphysique.
Les investigateurs consciencieux aussi bien que les sceptiques non bornés en trouveront la confirmation en s'intéressant de près aux récentes découvertes et expérimentations portant sur ce que les physiciens appellent improprement la "téléportation quantique" c'est-à-dire, en bref : la transmission et l'inviolabilité - immédiates, instantanées - de l'information structurant une 'réalité' indépendamment de l'espace et du temps.
Conscient de la trop grande concision de ce que je viens d'énoncer ainsi que de la subtilité et de la complexité d'une science telle que la physique quantique dont je ne suis pas un spécialiste, j'aborde seulement ce sujet. Cependant, les quelques indications supplémentaires qui vont suivre permettront d'y voir un peu plus clair.
Du point de vue de la physique de pointe, ''l’intrication'' est l'une des fonctions les plus singulières de la physique quantique.
Grâce à 'l'intrication', la transmission d'informations est immédiate et instantanée (indépendante de l'espace (lieu, distance) et du temps (moment, durée).
Pour essayer de faire comprendre comment fonctionne 'l'intrication' certains scientifiques ont eu recours à une métaphore comme celle-ci :
Prenons deux boîtes d'un jeu de construction de type 'Lego' contenant chacune un ensemble de briques (représentant métaphoriquement un ensemble de particules subatomiques.) Supposons que ces boîtes soient à des milliers de kilomètres de distance l'une de l'autre. Avec les 'briques' de la première boîte on a construit une maison. Les 'briques' de la seconde boîte sont étalées en désordre sur une table. La 'téléportation' quantique consiste à transmettre aux briques désordonnées l’information structurante, constructrice, correspondant à la maison construite qui se trouve dans la première boîte.
Mais, du point de vue quantique, le processus de transmission (ou de transmutation ou téléportation) joue un rôle surprenant ?
La maison, construite avec les briques de la première boîte et qui était considérée par notre perception limitative comme existant ‘ici et maintenant' mais séparée de la deuxième boîte, est présente ‘ici et maintenant’ lorsqu'on observe les briques de la deuxième boîte (indépendamment de la distance et la localisation fixées en fonction de notre perception dualiste).
Ce qui est présent ‘là’ où étaient les briques en désordre c’est 'la maison construite' - non pas une maison semblable mais la maison identique ; non pas un clone mais exactement la même maison, construite avec exactement les mêmes briques.
C'est l'expérience non métaphorique - vérifiable par expérience - qui a été réalisée récemment par des scientifiques de haut niveau.
Conclusion, en physique quantique comme en métaphysique, la conscience ou l'expérience de la 'présence réelle' sont libérées de la dépendance aux conceptions ou expériences 'matérialistes' - dualistes - relatives à l'espace et au temps.
Nous sommes donc en mesure d'établir un point (ou un pont) de jonction et d'accord entre la physique quantique (considérée à priori comme scientifique) et la métaphysique (considérée à priori comme non scientifique).
--
--
The English Translation done with the help of Google Translate.
The metaphysical notion of "real presence" and the injunctions of wisdom to "let go", to live "the present moment", in clear awareness, in fullness, seem completely insane to people insensitive to the teachings and non-materialistic practices , non-dualistic.
However, the intuitions, discoveries and non-dualistic 'scientific' experiences of quantum physics are reconcilable with the intuitions, experiences and 'non-scientific' discoveries of metaphysics.
The conscientious investigators as well as the unbounded skeptics will find confirmation of this by paying close attention to recent discoveries and experiments on what physicists improperly call "quantum teleportation", that is, in short: transmission and inviolability - immediate, instantaneous - information structuring a 'reality' regardless of space and time.
Conscious of the excessive conciseness of what I have just stated, as well as the subtlety and complexity of a science such as quantum physics, of which I am not a specialist, I only tackle this subject. However, the few additional indications that will follow will make it a little clearer.
To try to understand how 'entanglement' works some scientists have resorted to a metaphor like this:
Take two boxes of a 'Lego' type construction set each containing a set of bricks (metaphorically representing a set of subatomic particles.) Suppose these boxes are thousands of kilometers apart. With the 'bricks' of the first box we built a house. The 'bricks' of the second box are spread out in disorder on a table. The quantum 'teleportation' consists in transmitting to the disordered bricks the structuring, constructive information corresponding to the constructed house which is in the first box.
But, from the quantum point of view, the process of transmission (or transmutation or teleportation) plays a surprising role?
From the point of view of advanced physics, "entanglement" is one of the most singular functions of quantum physics.
Thanks to 'entanglement', the transmission of information is immediate and instantaneous (independent of space (place, distance) and time (moment, duration).
The house, built with the bricks of the first box and which was considered by our limiting perception as existing 'here and now' but separated from the second box, is present 'here and now' when we observe the bricks of the second box (regardless of the distance and location set according to our dualistic perception).
What is present 'where' were the messy bricks is 'the built house' - not a similar house but the identical house; not a clone but exactly the same house, built with exactly the same bricks.
It is the non-metaphorical experience - verifiable by experience - that has been carried out recently by top scientists.
Conclusion, in quantum physics as in metaphysics, the consciousness or experience of the 'real presence' is liberated from the dependence on 'materialistic' - dualistic - conceptions or experiences relating to space and time.
We are thus able to establish a point (or bridge) of junction and agreement between quantum physics (considered a priori as scientific) and metaphysics (considered a priori as unscientific).
-e.b.
--
I love J.Krishnamurti.
I love Kurt Gödel.
I love Heisenberg.
J.Krishnamurti challenges the validity of the description of the Self/self.
Kurt Gödel challenges the legitimacy of any such possible description about the Self/self.
Heisenberg helps us in breaking the barriers of ‘Knowledge’.
The Ultimate or the core-truth of all that is which Vedanta calls ‘Brahman’ and in the same breath asserts that this Brahman is no other than Self/self.
Physics utterly fails in this attempt of understanding and conceptualizing this core truth of all that is which is Reality/ Self/self.
Physics is stuck in finding out the nature of Time, Space, Matter and Energy, and can’t cross the Heisenberg Principle.
Mathematics indirectly gives a hint. The Modern and the Abstract Mathematics.
Mathematics of Veda has a quite different approach that could possibly fit into descriptive Mathematics of the day.
But that too has limitations and tell about all that is which is Reality/ Self/self.
That too, on the periphery only.
In terms of the three (or precisely 4) pronouns.
Namely: The First person -I/We, The second person -You, The third person -It/This/These, That/Those/He/She.
While Vedanta asserts that an understanding of any of the 3 pronouns leads to the door of all that which is, none contradicts the rest.
Psychology is way behind Physics and can never transcend the mind by whatever effort is made on its part, just because Psychology begins with the dichotomy of ‘the known’ and the one ‘who knows’. This division itself is the very foundation and the obstacle for reaching at the Truth.
--
Heisenberg Principle of uncertainty and Kurt Gödel’s ‘Incompleteness-Theorem’ however lay a foundation that is in a way parallel to the approach of Vedanta.
The Heisenberg Principle lets us see how Time and Space (and Matter and energy also) could be viewed as an alternative to ‘The Direct/Immediate perception’ / अपरोक्षानुभूति / aparokṣānubhūti of This Core-Truth of all that which is.
Here we also find the concurrency of J.Krishnamurti’s approach when he proposes: The consciousness that experiences is no other than what it experiences.
He praises himself to the extent of saying that he has not come across such a proposition in any of the old scriptures. May be he knows better what he means by this. Long before Sri Ramana Maharshi has stated the same truth in His Classic work Forty Verses on Reality.
I dare disagreeing with J.Krishnamurti, though I don’t doubt He is a Realized-one. And I admire His frank declaration that He is not a ‘Guru’.
Of Course He is strictly following the way of Vedanta that insists that the knowledge of Brahman could be given only by a competent Master and only to a deserving aspirant.
This makes out the status and position of J.Krishnamurti unique and quite extra-ordinary too. Though He is a competent ‘Master’ in the Vedanta-parlance, He tries to escape from the traditional clause. There are valid reasons for doing this for him, but many a qualified aspirants have been misguided in this way.
Heisenberg Principle when seen with the Principles of Quantum Mechanics give a clue how अपरोक्षानुभूति / aparokṣānubhūti’ could take place in an instant irrespective of Time-Space obstacle.
--
For reference only,
Here is a 'Face-book Note' in French that inspired me to write this post in 'swaadhyaaya'.
With due Credits to
Eduardo Beloscar
--
Edouard Beloscar December 21, 2017
La notion métaphysique de "présence réelle" et les injonctions de sagesse visant à 'lâcher-prise', à vivre "l'instant présent", en claire conscience, en plénitude, paraissent complètement insensées aux personnes insensibles aux enseignements et aux pratiques non matérialistes, non dualistes.
Pourtant, les intuitions, découvertes et expériences 'scientifiques' non dualistes de la physique quantique sont conciliables avec les intuitions, expériences et découvertes 'non scientifiques' de la métaphysique.
Les investigateurs consciencieux aussi bien que les sceptiques non bornés en trouveront la confirmation en s'intéressant de près aux récentes découvertes et expérimentations portant sur ce que les physiciens appellent improprement la "téléportation quantique" c'est-à-dire, en bref : la transmission et l'inviolabilité - immédiates, instantanées - de l'information structurant une 'réalité' indépendamment de l'espace et du temps.
Conscient de la trop grande concision de ce que je viens d'énoncer ainsi que de la subtilité et de la complexité d'une science telle que la physique quantique dont je ne suis pas un spécialiste, j'aborde seulement ce sujet. Cependant, les quelques indications supplémentaires qui vont suivre permettront d'y voir un peu plus clair.
Du point de vue de la physique de pointe, ''l’intrication'' est l'une des fonctions les plus singulières de la physique quantique.
Grâce à 'l'intrication', la transmission d'informations est immédiate et instantanée (indépendante de l'espace (lieu, distance) et du temps (moment, durée).
Pour essayer de faire comprendre comment fonctionne 'l'intrication' certains scientifiques ont eu recours à une métaphore comme celle-ci :
Prenons deux boîtes d'un jeu de construction de type 'Lego' contenant chacune un ensemble de briques (représentant métaphoriquement un ensemble de particules subatomiques.) Supposons que ces boîtes soient à des milliers de kilomètres de distance l'une de l'autre. Avec les 'briques' de la première boîte on a construit une maison. Les 'briques' de la seconde boîte sont étalées en désordre sur une table. La 'téléportation' quantique consiste à transmettre aux briques désordonnées l’information structurante, constructrice, correspondant à la maison construite qui se trouve dans la première boîte.
Mais, du point de vue quantique, le processus de transmission (ou de transmutation ou téléportation) joue un rôle surprenant ?
La maison, construite avec les briques de la première boîte et qui était considérée par notre perception limitative comme existant ‘ici et maintenant' mais séparée de la deuxième boîte, est présente ‘ici et maintenant’ lorsqu'on observe les briques de la deuxième boîte (indépendamment de la distance et la localisation fixées en fonction de notre perception dualiste).
Ce qui est présent ‘là’ où étaient les briques en désordre c’est 'la maison construite' - non pas une maison semblable mais la maison identique ; non pas un clone mais exactement la même maison, construite avec exactement les mêmes briques.
C'est l'expérience non métaphorique - vérifiable par expérience - qui a été réalisée récemment par des scientifiques de haut niveau.
Conclusion, en physique quantique comme en métaphysique, la conscience ou l'expérience de la 'présence réelle' sont libérées de la dépendance aux conceptions ou expériences 'matérialistes' - dualistes - relatives à l'espace et au temps.
Nous sommes donc en mesure d'établir un point (ou un pont) de jonction et d'accord entre la physique quantique (considérée à priori comme scientifique) et la métaphysique (considérée à priori comme non scientifique).
--
--
The English Translation done with the help of Google Translate.
The metaphysical notion of "real presence" and the injunctions of wisdom to "let go", to live "the present moment", in clear awareness, in fullness, seem completely insane to people insensitive to the teachings and non-materialistic practices , non-dualistic.
However, the intuitions, discoveries and non-dualistic 'scientific' experiences of quantum physics are reconcilable with the intuitions, experiences and 'non-scientific' discoveries of metaphysics.
The conscientious investigators as well as the unbounded skeptics will find confirmation of this by paying close attention to recent discoveries and experiments on what physicists improperly call "quantum teleportation", that is, in short: transmission and inviolability - immediate, instantaneous - information structuring a 'reality' regardless of space and time.
Conscious of the excessive conciseness of what I have just stated, as well as the subtlety and complexity of a science such as quantum physics, of which I am not a specialist, I only tackle this subject. However, the few additional indications that will follow will make it a little clearer.
To try to understand how 'entanglement' works some scientists have resorted to a metaphor like this:
Take two boxes of a 'Lego' type construction set each containing a set of bricks (metaphorically representing a set of subatomic particles.) Suppose these boxes are thousands of kilometers apart. With the 'bricks' of the first box we built a house. The 'bricks' of the second box are spread out in disorder on a table. The quantum 'teleportation' consists in transmitting to the disordered bricks the structuring, constructive information corresponding to the constructed house which is in the first box.
But, from the quantum point of view, the process of transmission (or transmutation or teleportation) plays a surprising role?
From the point of view of advanced physics, "entanglement" is one of the most singular functions of quantum physics.
Thanks to 'entanglement', the transmission of information is immediate and instantaneous (independent of space (place, distance) and time (moment, duration).
The house, built with the bricks of the first box and which was considered by our limiting perception as existing 'here and now' but separated from the second box, is present 'here and now' when we observe the bricks of the second box (regardless of the distance and location set according to our dualistic perception).
What is present 'where' were the messy bricks is 'the built house' - not a similar house but the identical house; not a clone but exactly the same house, built with exactly the same bricks.
It is the non-metaphorical experience - verifiable by experience - that has been carried out recently by top scientists.
Conclusion, in quantum physics as in metaphysics, the consciousness or experience of the 'real presence' is liberated from the dependence on 'materialistic' - dualistic - conceptions or experiences relating to space and time.
We are thus able to establish a point (or bridge) of junction and agreement between quantum physics (considered a priori as scientific) and metaphysics (considered a priori as unscientific).
-e.b.
--
